Helping answer that question is a fellow who showed up on Richard Dawkins web site on a post called "Why Science Can't Save the Republican Party." He (or she? or it?) calls himself arogop and he wrote this:
I would like to point out that when we attack a label, like Republican, we tend lose that argument.
Not all Republicans are theists. Not all Republican oppose stem cell research. Not all Republicans fear Science and Reason. When you lump us all together you truly show ignorance.
Attack issues and ideas, not labels.
I am an atheist-Republican. I support science.
Can you imagine how stupid I would sound if I said that the members of this site are a bunch of Birkenstock wearing, narrow minded, left wing whackos! I would be wrong. (on the last two ;) )
I thought that was a pretty stupid comment. Saying "...when we attack a label, like Republican, we tend lose that argument" is about as sensible as saying "when we use language we tend to lose that argument." Labels are just part of language and the article being commented on fitted criticism of that "Republican" label to a T.
However, the really stupid part of the above comment is saying "Not all Republicans are theists. Not all Republican oppose stem cell research. Not all Republicans fear Science and Reason. When you lump us all together you truly show ignorance." While it's true; not all Republicans are theists and not all Republicans oppose stem cell research, such Republicans are obviously stupid to still be in the Republican party! If you're not a theist who opposes embryonic stem cell research the Republican party doesn't offer you much more than war, corruption and lies. It's no longer Barry Goldwater's party. The Republican party has been taken over by Christianists and there are no presidential candidates up there who are not pandering to the Christianists.
You no longer have a choice in the Republican party. So, I told arogop that he was even stupider than a theist. It might be okay to once have been a Republican, but it's not okay to be a Republican now. You can't say you support science and vote for George W. Bush twice. To do that is to lie.
The Republicans have betrayed every principal of old fashioned conservatism they once espoused. They're the ones driving up spending under Bush. Yea, Bush cut taxes, but he racked up trillions in debt.
Either you have a reasonable, intelligent reason to be a Republican today or you have a stupid reason to be one. I assume it's stupid because I can't imagine a good reason to be a Republican.
"Now is your chance to prove me wrong," I told him.
He tried with this:
In the two party system (I will assume you know what that means) those who vote for one issue and only one issue will usually be disappointed.
The groups of people I have listed understand this and vote Republican because it is the party that best represents their core beliefs. Their group label comes in play to show where they differ.
I have explained before and will review for you again. I am a Republican and tend to vote Republican because of the following beliefs. The higher the ranking the more important.
1. I support Capitalism and free markets. In my opinion, this is the fastest way to bring about advancement in technology and to improve the wealth effect for everyone. I do believe in some regulation of said "free markets". Pure Capitalism will not work. We are not Ferengy.
2. I believe that less Government is better. I prefer that the tax base for the federal government be only large enough to support the basic obligations of the Constitution.
3. I believe in preserving the greatest number of freedoms for individuals.
Yes, I believe that my party has strayed from my core beliefs, yet it still represents me better than the alternative. I do my political fighting in the primaries.
These days the biggest opponent inside of "my party" is the religious fundamentalist. It used to be that we could ignore them and "live and let live".
But of course you already know that since you are so much smarter than me.
So, there you have it: Stupid reasons that some people are still Republicans. Three mostly meaningless, ego-flattering platitudes that the Republican party pretends to stand for but doesn't. The new, Christianist Republican party is opposed to all three of those things. They want bigger, intrusive government, which is what you'll get if the individual freedom implied by Roe v. Wade is overturned. And who knows what other laws they'd like to put back on the books. They want corporate and church welfare too.
And even if they didn't want those things, in order to stand for them you have to be against someone who opposes them. So, the platitudes automatically imply that Hillary, Barack and Joe Biden are against Capitalism, free markets and individual freedom. I don't think they are. So, the platitudes are empty lies.
Still, stupidity is relative. At least arogop isn't as dumb as Sherri Shepherd.
4 comments:
I have to take a bit of issue with some of what you've said -
Mind you, I am not a republicrat. I believe that both parties are exactly the same coin - they put a different face on, but they are a part of the machine.
I think that it's admirable that the republican guy was even willing to post his beliefs. :) Yeah, you don't agree with him, and sure - he seems ignorant- but at the same time, he is a positive force inside the republican party. I don't think that he has any illusions of who will be a presidential candidate - he says that he'll do his political fighting at the PRIMARY level, after all... and that's where it's interesting to me.
I will likely vote for an alternate candidate in this election, but I will be showing up in the primaries to throw my vote in for Ron Paul. He's the ONLY REPUBLICAN in a field of republicans, and I have a feeling your poster friend is doing the exact same.
Coming at him with such vitriol isn't the way to have a debate or discussion. Flame wars are a dime-a-dozen on the internet, after all... I think that a more productive dialog could be had by simply asking him "so what are YOU doing to bring the Republican party back to where it used to be?"
jeremy wrote:
"I will be showing up in the primaries to throw my vote in for Ron Paul."
Good luck with that. Paul's radical Libertarian ideas will kill his chances in the big election and he will scare the Christianists.
"He's [Ron Paul] the ONLY REPUBLICAN in a field of republicans, and I have a feeling your poster friend is doing the exact same."
So, John McCain is no longer a Republican?
As for how arogop might vote, you can ask him yourself by going over to Richard Dawkins' site and asking.
"Coming at him with such vitriol isn't the way to have a debate or discussion."
So, you're stupid too, eh?
Yeah, I'm stupid. Nice. And... you're an asshole. Better? Perhaps I should have said that "coming at him with such vitriol isn't a good way to FACILITATE a discussion of ideas". I have found that, on the internet at least, it's much more interesting to let someone talk, ask him rational and calm questions about the beliefs, and then, without personal attack, tear the beliefs to little tiny shreds. Keeping it above a personal level tends also to lengthen the useful parts of a conversation by keeping useless emotions out of the way (IE flamewars)... but of course, because you and I disagree about how to conduct a conversation, I'm stupid. Right?
"So, John McCain is no longer a Republican?"
He's a Republican in name, yes. What I'm saying is that the Republican party that you're seeing right now (in GENERAL) is hijacked by what people have called neo-cons - essentially, a party of small government and non-interventionist politics has become a big-brother-loving, interventionist party. McCain is firmly in that camp, I think.
"Good luck with that. Paul's radical Libertarian ideas will kill his chances in the big election and he will scare the Christianists."
Well duh. (to put it bluntly)
I have no illusions about Ron Paul's chances of being elected overall (or even nominated). He doesn't have the church support, the haircut, or the media support. Here's the thing though - my vote at that point for Ron Paul actually MATTERS. Every vote for him is a wakeup call to the party mainstream (albeit a small one), the mouthbreathing creationists who believe that there are WMDs still hidden in some bunker in Iraq and that perhaps gay marriage could somehow destroy our country.
Good post Norm. I don't understand the attitude of voting for the Repubs when they're mostly just right-wing theocrat nutjobs either(not unless of course you're also one.)
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